Perspective
Ed Mullen
chauvinistic songs. 25 years ago I had a friend (female) who used to
call certain songs I sang "those double standard songs." In a quarter
century (oh, just shut up, ok?) I wonder how much has changed.
People still have the desire to find an edge, some leverage, some little
thing that makes them better, more successful, or even just a wee bit
more able to survive than their fellows.
So, I don't sing "For Lovin' Me" much any more. First, it's an old
song and, well, my memory ain't what it used to be. Second, I just don't
have a lot of energy to devote to defending myself (or songs I sing) to
people with a specific political bent and no sense of humor.
And then, tonight, I listened again to Cathy singing this song (from
the Caffe Lena gig). And, all of a sudden, I just grinned. How perfect
for a woman to sing it, this ode to chauvinism. I can't help but wonder
what Gord would think. In a woman's hands (lips? words? mouth?) this
song becomes terribly timeless.
I'm sure I've missed some huge issue and that I will be made aware of it
here in short order.
--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Darerott
>song and, well, my memory ain't what it used to be. Second, I just don't
>have a lot of energy to devote to defending myself (or songs I sing) to
>people with a specific political bent and no sense of humor.
But Ed, those are the people it would be the most fun to sing it to! Just to
get under their skin a bit. Life is to short to not have fun with the
humorless. :-)
Darin
"Bless you all and keep you with the faith to let it pass"
SonataVII
Maybe Ed and/or Cathy should perform that one as well.
Heather
Mark Westling
Lovin' Me" was actually prompted by him getting dumped by a woman, not the
other way around. In other words, the songs relates the attitude SHE had,
not GL...
It does sound chauvinistic, but the cocky attitude in the song can come from
either gender.
Perhaps Richard can shed some light on this??
Mark
"Ed Mullen" <e...@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:3CF1B25E...@edmullen.net...
Char
a relationship then time and energy wouldn't be wasted. There wouldn't be
pain and hurt when disappointment slaps you in the head. In "I'm Not Sayin"
Lightfoot is setting out the parameters of who he is and what a woman can
expect or not expect from him in their relationship. He may sound
egotistical and selfish but I appreciate the truthfulness of his words. He
says he might fool around, he might not be around, he might not be sorry for
what he says and he might not be true. He also says he won't deny or
mistreat - which is his misguided thinking about his words and actions. He
also says he'll try. He's laid it out for her - here I am - take me as I am
if you want- and if you want me this is what you'll get so don't complain
later - I've told you who I am.
I personally wish that honesty like that were more forthcoming not only to
others but to ourselves about who we really are. It may not be nice but it's
the truth at least.
Not that I wouldn't have given him a go-round if I'd had the chance !
lol
Char
"SonataVII" <sona...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020527022932...@mb-da.aol.com...
Richard Harison
was the most chauvinistic song I've ever written" on several occasions.
That it can be sung by either a man or a woman gainsays the notion that it
is *male* chauvinism. That is further proved by the fact the song was also
recorded by Ian AND Sylvia!
--
All the Best,
Richard Harison
"Mark Westling" <MarkWe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mMkI8.75983$Q93.4...@news1.west.cox.net...
Telekidd
>Maybe Ed and/or Cathy should perform that one as well.
I must admit, I was slightly surprised when I discovered GL thought "For Lovin'
Me" was a chauvenistic song. I just found a lot of slightly sardonic humor in
it...or perhaps I just never took it all that seriously. Perhaps it was
because I never took much notice of the song until college when I heard a
female friend sing it--she thought it was really cute. With "I'm Not Saying,"
perhaps my definition of chauvenism is off, but I always heard the song as more
of an ode to self-centeredness, and to non-committment...but, once again, with
a note of sly humor. To me, this was brought to the forefront even more when
GL started juxtaposing "I'm Not Sayin'" with "Ribbon of Darkness." In the
booklet accompanying the set, GL said something like in the first song he's
saying "It's my way or the highway," (which, once again, I don't really equate
with chauvenism--he's just stating who he is and what she's in for) and in the
second song "he's left holding the bag. Pride cometh before the fall."
Finally, I wanted to mention Cathy does indeed do "I'm Not Sayin'!" And
beautifully! She did both songs at our recent Caffe Lena gig!
Happy Memorial Day to all! :)
Derek
Roy Entin
chauvinism. On the other hand, I dimmly remember seeing a description
of "For Lovin' Me" in the linger notes for some album or other (a
cover by another singer or group I think) which seemed to apologize
for the song by describing it as "tongue in cheek."
Roy
"Richard Harison" <rhNO-SP...@bmts.com> wrote in message news:<10225000...@Virginia.BMTS.Com>...
Sputnik
the first and last word, frankly. It gets sort of like the stupid problem
that had developed with "Approaching Lavender": We all know doggone well
the song is NOT about homosexuality, but some goof-offs with not much to do
have successfully made a mountain from a molehill. The bottom line ends up
with our hero not playing a perfectly good song because of a minority of
people, which, to my mind, is completely wrong.
Ker-ching! there's the 2 cents. 8D
-gary
Richard Harison
Gord lamented to me why he felt awkward about performing the song. "It's
not about homosexuals..her name is Lavender."
--
All the Best,
Richard Harison
"Sputnik" <spu...@neobright.net> wrote in message
news:ZsBI8.3721$FL3.4...@cletus.bright.net...
Jen
>that had developed with "Approaching Lavender":
>The bottom line ends up
>with our hero not playing a perfectly good song
it is one of my favorites too.
Jen
Telekidd
>Gord lamented to me why he felt awkward about performing the song. "It's
>not about homosexuals..her name is Lavender."
Ya know, that interpretation never OCCURRED to me at all until I read it on the
NG some time ago. And I STILL don't get it! :)
Derek
Richard Harison
symbolic color. Wasn't there a flap recently about one of the teletubbies
being representative of homosexuality? Wasn't he purple? As you can see I
don't waste much time researching this stuff!
-- All the Best,
Richard Harison
news:20020528012337...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Telekidd
about the lavender connection. What I meant was, the interpretation doesn't
make much sense when you look at the lyrics. I suppose an interpretation can
be attached just based on the title, but it seems to me that's kinda stretching
things a bit!
All that being said, I've always considered that song one of GL's underrated,
overlooked gems.
Derek
Char
I think it's a lovely, lovely song and it is just what it is.
Char
Ed Mullen
> make much sense when you look at the lyrics. I suppose an interpretation can
> be attached just based on the title, but it seems to me that's kinda stretching
> things a bit!
>
> Derek
>
And in support of that notion ...
A Message To The Wind - all about flatulence
A Tree Too Weak To Stand - a lament about male impotence
Baby It's All Right - woman's response to ATTWTS
Biscuit City - obviously all about marijuana baked goods
Ecstasy Made Easy - egad - promoting prostitution!
Leaves of Grass - Gord's sequel to Puff The Magic Dragon
Love and Maple Syrup - (too kinky to get into)
Movin' - also known as "The Laxative Song"
My Pony Won't Go - (see ATTWTS)
Ode To Big Blue - (see LAMS)
She's Not the Same - about sex changes
Your Love's Return - triumph over ATTWTS and MPWG
Honest, I've researched it and it's all true!
Richard Harison
Therefore, if about homosexuality, the line "for HER light so warm and pure
would draw you like a flame" would be grammatically incorrect, the proper
line being "For ITS light..."
--
All the Best,
Richard Harison, PhD. {:<)news:20020528091328...@mb-ch.aol.com...
BrunaZanelli
>Ode To Big Blue - (see LAMS)
>She's Not the Same - about sex changes
>Your Love's Return - triumph over ATTWTS and MPWG
>
>Honest, I've researched it and it's all true!
>--
>Ed Mullen
>http://edmullen.net
>
>
Richard, you really should print this
out and let Gord see it!
Ed, you really are priceless!!!!!!!
Bru
>
>
>
>
>
BrunaZanelli
>I think it's a lovely, lovely song and it is just what it is.
Derek,
me too.
All this nonsense is really just that:
nonsense.
Bru
Mark Westling
Did She Mention My Name? - a clear reference to Bill Clinton
If You Could Read My MInd - same as DSMMN above...
Bell(e)s of the Evening - Those ladies of the night...
Sit Down, Young Starnger - obviously alluding to gay bathhouses
A lesson In Love - clearly the story of Mary Jo Letourneu (sp?)
Drink Yer Glasses Empty - probably commissioned by Smirnoff...
Gotta Get Away - OJ Simpson's theme song
Mark
"Ed Mullen" <e...@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:3CF39A61...@edmullen.net...
Sputnik
grin>
I did like his title interpretations, though....
-Gary
Ed Mullen
Ohmigod. I've created a monster!
Mark Westling
was one more example of people with WAY too much time on their hands. It
was and still is a lovely song.
Having been to Orillia twice in the past 6 years, I can readily understand
how GL would have used an beautiful and natural word like "Lavender" to
refer to a lady, only to have it twisted into something tawdry by others.
Mark
"Ed Mullen" <e...@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:3CF40D77...@edmullen.net...
Richard Harison
best guess is that he just might not think such *interpretations* to be as
hilarious as we found
Ed's tongue in cheek stuff to be. Gord has a wonderful sense of humor
(sorry--Brit Bru, *humour*)
but he takes his work quite seriously, and is not keen on someone else
telling him "what he meant." (Neither was poet Robert Frost--who told me the
same thing)
It is true that he will satirize his own material-- to great effect. For
instance...at rehearsals or tune-ups he might sing:
"All the lovely ladies in refineries tonight"
Forgive me Gord if I gave away a private moment.
--
All the Best,
Richard Harison
news:20020528132235...@mb-cv.aol.com...
SeaFarer62
SeaFarer62
Sorry for the duplicate post. I hit the wrong keys.
At one concert I was at some years back, someone yelled repeatedly for
"Approaching Lavender." Finally, GL told a story that they were playing in
San Francisco one night when someone in the audience stood up and asked
politely in a high-pitched voice that GL imitated very much politically
incorrectly:
"Mr. Lightfoot, would you do Approaching Lavender for us, please?"
He shrugged his shoulders as if he didn't know how anyone got the message from
that song and told the audience that this song is one he no longer does.
Having traveled Canada, I certainly subscribe to the theory that nature was his
inspiration and any possible connection to the gay community was completely
unplanned.
John
Ed Mullen
> Definitely a stretch! Consider...homosexuality is a genderless noun.
> Therefore, if about homosexuality, the line "for HER light so warm and pure
> would draw you like a flame" would be grammatically incorrect, the proper
> line being "For ITS light..."
> --
> All the Best,
> Richard Harison, PhD. {:<)
Oh no! LOGIC! Egad. I am humbled in the face of overwhelming reason. Still,
I'm pretty sure that there's something evil in there somewhere. I just gotta
Reverend Ralph. Hey, we're studying these songs, all of them, and we are gonna
find it! Yeah. You betcha. Gotta be some evil in there somewhere. (Although,
I gotta confess, that whole "Sea of Tranquility" thing threw us off for a couple
of seconds. Sounded awfully spiritual for a few moments. Hmmm.)
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Ed Mullen
Oh yeah! Well, ah, oh yeah? Err, hey, how about "Oh yeah?" (Cripes, I
really gotta remember to arm myself before I start these things ...)
Roy Entin
Roy
Richard Harison
York?"
(shallow humor on my part-- only rendered to show the absurdity of so-called
*interpretations* of critics or other *know it alls* offer because they do
not have lives of their own)
My deepest respect for innocent victims and NYPD FDNY, Port Authority and
any/all rescue services or other casualties involved)
--
All the Best,
Richard Harison
"Ed Mullen" <e...@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:3CF41BB9...@edmullen.net...
BrunaZanelli
>best guess is that he just might not think such *interpretations* to be as
>hilarious as we found
>Ed's tongue in cheek stuff to be.
Richard -
That's a pity - but I can understand
from a writer's point of view.
Ed - you are still a riot! LOL
Bru
Steven G.
great song to learn.
Steven
"Char" <lightf...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<1yLI8.113151$ah_....@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
Sputnik
Cathy Cowette
with chauvinism.
1. I like the tune.
2. I like the words
3. It has a cool guitar part.
It's that simple, Ed. Honest. Well, one more reason. I like to think when
I'm singing it, my ex-husband is somewhere listening. So I guess there's a
little "female chauvinism" in there, too.
Cathy
"Ed Mullen" <e...@edmullen.net> wrote in message
news:3CF1B25E...@edmullen.net...
> Gordon Lightfoot has said that "For Lovin' Me" is one of his most
> chauvinistic songs. 25 years ago I had a friend (female) who used to
> call certain songs I sang "those double standard songs." In a quarter
> century (oh, just shut up, ok?) I wonder how much has changed.
>
> People still have the desire to find an edge, some leverage, some little
> thing that makes them better, more successful, or even just a wee bit
> more able to survive than their fellows.
>
> So, I don't sing "For Lovin' Me" much any more. First, it's an old
> song and, well, my memory ain't what it used to be. Second, I just don't
> have a lot of energy to devote to defending myself (or songs I sing) to
> people with a specific political bent and no sense of humor.
>
> And then, tonight, I listened again to Cathy singing this song (from
> the Caffe Lena gig). And, all of a sudden, I just grinned. How perfect
> for a woman to sing it, this ode to chauvinism. I can't help but wonder
> what Gord would think. In a woman's hands (lips? words? mouth?) this
> song becomes terribly timeless.
>
> I'm sure I've missed some huge issue and that I will be made aware of it
> here in short order.